Womble Bond Dickinson Ramble Podcast

The Womble Bond Dickinson Ramble podcast is a weekly podcast brought to you by TCPAland.com.

Prepare to laugh and learn while following Eric Troutman and his team as they discuss the noteworthy topics of the day. As the host of one of Womble Bond Dickinson’s official litigation podcast, Troutman will be facilitating conversations centered around TCPA litigation as well as other trending topics.


Episode 15:

In a much anticipated interview, our guest this week is YouMail’s CEO Alex Quilici. Alex explains the methodology behind the company’s famous “robocall index.” The robocall index is roundly cited as proof positive that robocalls are on the rise in this country and the NCLC has “unmasked” the callers on the index to announce their list of the “Top 20 Robocallers.” But what is the robocall index really tracking and is it consistent with the experience of everyday Americans? Find out in this revealing interview.

Before the interview, the team discusses some of the decisions that came out this week in TCPAland and Eric’s prediction of sparks flying didn’t pan out in regards to the FCC oversight hearing.

First up is a Good Reyes decision coming out of the Eleventh Circuit in Few v. Receivables Performance Management. What makes Few particularly powerful is its recognition of binding Eleventh Circuit precedent that a consumer’s right to revoke consent may be “restricted by contract”.

In Legg, Plaintiff sued the Defendant – a pet insurance company – in a nationwide class action for making a call with a prerecorded message advertising the availability of pet insurance services. Plaintiff claimed that, although he had provided his phone number to a pet adoption agency when adopting a cute little kitty, the Defendant did not have the required prior express written consent required to send him the message.

We also give Ocwen a round of applause for its big win in Keyes v. Ocwen Loan Servicing, No. 17-cv-11492, 2018 U.S. Dist. LEXIS 138445, at *15 (E.D. Mich. Aug. 16, 2018). The case finds that an Aspect predictive dialer system is not an ATDS as a matter of law. Now that’s big news!

Quick Info–Ramble Episode Fifteen

Record Date: August 16, 2018

Host: The Czar

Cast: BaronEarlCzarina, and Empress

Guest (FIREline): Alex Quilici, CEO, YouMail


Episode 14:

A whole lot happening in TCPALand this last week and the Czar is back at the helm.

In simultaneous rulings issued last Thursday, the Hon. Jerome B. Simandle ruled twice that dialers calling from lists do qualify as automated telephone dialing systems for purposes of the TCPA after all.

In Abante Rooter and Plumbing, Inc. v. Alarm. Com, the Defendant sought summary judgment arguing that the FCC’s 2003 and 2008 Predictive Dialer Rulings are no longer viable after ACA Int’l. Plaintiff sought judgment arguing that those rulings do remain binding and that Alarm.com used just such a dialer. The Court denied both motions finding that the FCC’s rulings remain binding but that Plaintiff failed to prove Alarm.com used a predictive dialer to begin with.

In Abramson v. Oasis Power LLC, Abramson brought a class action suit against Oasis for allegedly making automated telemarketing calls to the phone numbers of Abramson and other putative class members, using an ATDS or predictive dialers.

A “Good Reyes” case, Harris v. Navient Solutions, the court made short work of the Plaintiff’s reliance on FCC orders suggesting that consent can sometimes be revoked. Harris points out that the Reyes Appellants had made a similar argument and been shot down by the Second Circuit panel which had distinguished those FCC orders as limited to gratuitous consent circumstances, not contractual consent.

Our guest this week is Michael Greenwald of Greenwald Davidson Radbil PLLC. Michael tells us how he built his firm and how he got started with Consumer protection class actions including TCPA.

Quick Info–Ramble Episode Fourteen

Record Date: August 9, 2018

Host: The Czar

Cast: BaronGrand DuchessCzarina

Guest (FIREline): Michael Greenwald, Greenwald Davidson Radbil PLLC


Episode 13:

This week the Czarina is back to host the Ramble. The team discussed the hot week in TCPAland by going through the details of cases such as Gary v. TrueBlue Inc., Pinkus v. Sirius XM Radio, and others.

Recently a block of 14 Democratic Senators recently wrote to FCC Chairman Pai and urged him to maintain the Commission’s broad reading of, inter alia, the TCPA’s ATDS definition.

Our FIREline guest this week is Rebekah Johnson, Founder and CEO of Numeracle. Rebecca talks about what her company does and the Communication Protection Coalition. She tells us what she considers a robocall and so much more.

Quick Info–Ramble Episode Thirteen

Record Date: August 2, 2018

Host: The Czarina

Cast: Grand Duchess, Earl

Guest (FIREline): Rebekah Johnson, Founder and CEO, Numeracle


Episode 12:

The Czar is back in the host’s seat and ready to dive into TCPA developments that have come out in the last week or so. The team jumps right into the question of “Do TCPA claims survive death?” and the 6th Circuit ruling that the claim does survive the death of the plaintiff in the Parchment v. SLM Corp.

In two claims brought against Quicken Loans we see divergent results from the court in the middle district of Florida and in the opinion of our TCPAlanders. Eric has some differing opinions on the first case which involved a matter of personal jurisdiction where the plaintiff, Norris, is a California resident but brought a class action in Florida.

The Boogeyman wins big. Our Ramble guest, Jay Edelson, wins record-setting 14-19 million dollar attorney fee award in TCPA class settlement.

This weeks guest on the FIREline is the “Maverick”, Martin Jaszczuk of Jaszczuk P.C. Martin tells a little about his practice and starting his own firm in 2017. Then it is open season on the state of TCPA interpretations.

Quick Info–Ramble Episode Twelve

Record Date: July 26, 2018

Host: The Czar

Cast: BaronGrand DuchessCzarina

Guest (FIREline): Martin Jaszczuk of Jaszczuk P.C.


Episode 11:

Czarina takes over the Ramble this week while the Czar takes a little time off, but he jumps on the FIREline to interview our special guest, Christine Reilly.

The lower courts are still split on ATDS functionality following ACA International. Cases such as Lord and Sessions, etc. continue to challenge the idea that random or sequential number generation is required to qualify as an ATDS.

Our guest this week is the “Fax Queen” Christine Reilly, chair of TCPA compliance and class action defense at Manatt, Phelps & Phillips, LLP. Christine and Eric trade TCPA war stories and her thoughts on ACA.

Quick Info–Ramble Episode Eleven

Record Date: July 19, 2018

Host: The Czarina

Cast: BaronEarl, Grand Duchess

Guest (FIREline): Christine Reilly of Manatt, Phelps & Phillips, LLP.


Episode 10:

This week the Czar has switched up the cast of the Ramble welcoming back the Earl, the Archduke, Queenie, Empress, and Erin Kubota (who refuses to take a royal title).

The team discusses updates in the Bad Reyes saga and the One-way Intervention challenge, Marks v. Crunch, and more.

Our FIREline guest this week is the Boogeyman himself, Jay Edelson from Edelson PC.

Quick Info–Ramble Episode Ten

Record Date: July 12, 2018

Host: The Czar

Cast: Earl, ArchdukeQueenie, Empress, Erin Kubota

Guest (FIREline): Jay Edelson of Edelson PC.


Episode 9: 

Our best episode yet. We cover the recent Tucker vs Credit One Bank case and an important Southern California District Courts ruling on the definition of ATDS post-ACA. We also analyze the phenomena behind the decrease in TCPA filings recently.

But the big draw here is the Ramble’s groundbreaking interview with Shay Dvoretzky who argued successfully against the FCC’s 2015 Omnibus ruling. This guy is incredible.

As lead counsel for Petitioners in ACA Int’l, Counsel Dvoretzky is uniquely positioned to opine on the current split of authority as to whether or not the FCC’s predictive dialer rulings remain viable following the D.C. Circuit Court of Appeal’s ruling. His answer is clear:

“At this point, district courts are not bound by the 2003 and 2008 orders anymore. They are free to go back to the text of the statute and interpret what it says and decide based on that what functions do or do not make something an ATDS.”

-Shay Dvoretzky, July 5, 2017 on the Womble Bond Dickinson Ramble Podcast 

Counsel Dvoretzky was also not shy in observing that “a lot of district courts have gotten that wrong–there have been some district courts have taken the view that the ACA decision was only reviewing the 2015 order.”

This is a gem of an interview. Listen below.

Quick Info–Ramble Episode Nine

Record Date: July 5, 2018

Host: The Czar

Cast: Baron, Grand DuchessCzarina, Queenie

Guest (FIREline): Shay Dvoretzky, Jones Day Partner who successfully argued Petitioner’s Challenge to FCC’s 2015 TCPA Omnibus ruling in ACA Int’l.


Episode 8:

Marty Stern–the immensely talented and superbly-well-connected head of Womble Bond Dickinson’s Communications Technology and Media team in D.C.–joined the Ramble podcast this week (as a stand-in for Jay Edelson who could not make his scheduled appearance.) Marty’s team advocates in front of the FCC all the time. He “knows” the Commissioners and talks to them regularly on the TCPA and beyond.

Boy, oh boy did he have a lot to say about the TCPA. This was our most wild and raucous interview yet and you’ll love it.

Before we get to the interview, however, the team breaks down Dominguez and Carpenter as well as Senator Markey’s letter to the FCC. We also talk about the copycat TCPA podcast out there. And we have an esoteric discussion about the nature of privacy rights infringed by phone calls under the TCPA.

Quick Info–Ramble Episode Eight

Record Date: June 28, 2018

Host: The Czar

Cast: Baron, Czarina, Queenie

Guest (FIREline): Marty Stern, Head of WBD’s CTM FCC Advocacy Team


Episode 7:

The royal court is adding yet another member, the Queenie.

The Baron goes in-depth with a ramble on the BBA and the FCC’s Implementing Regulations related to collection of government-backed debt.

Our special guest on this episode is the CEO of InsideArm, Stephanie Eidleman. Stephanie tells us all about her background and career leading up to CEO and her work with the Collections industry.

Quick Info–Ramble Episode Seven

Record Date: June 14, 2018

Host: The Baron 

Cast: Queenie, Grand Duchess, Czarina

Guest (FIREline): Stephanie Eidleman, CEO of InsideArm


Episode 6:

Another new member joins the Ramble as the Earl.

The team discusses the Lavigne case and why TCPA Bad/Wrong Number Class Actions are scary along with other recent TCPA developments.

Special guest, Abbas Kazerounian, founding partner at Kazerouni Law Group, is appointed as the godfather of TCPA class litigation. Abbas talks about how to become effective consumer rights attorney.

Quick Info–Ramble Episode Six

Record Date: June 7, 2018

Host: The Czar

Cast: Baron, Grand Duchess, Czarina, Empress, Earl

Guest (In Studio): Abbas Kazerounian, Godfather of TCPA Class Actions


Episode 5:

The TCPAland royal family introduces two new members and mention reminders about transactional consent and the FCC public notice deadline.

We also welcome our guest, Plaintiff attorney, Todd Freidman who is fired up about the onslaught of telemarketer cases popping up right now.

Quick Info–Ramble Episode Five

Record Date: May 31, 2018

Host: The Baron

Cast: The Nameless One, Archduke, Grand Duchess 

Guest (FIREline): Todd Friedman


Episode 4:

Could *7 be the answer to revocation? Is it too easy to revoke consent and what does it really mean?

Special guest Becca J. Wahlquist, of Snell and Wilmer, joins us on the Womble Bond Dickinson FIREline to discuss her recent TCPA wins.

Quick Info–Ramble Episode Four

Record Date: May 24, 2018

Host: The Czar

Cast: Baron, Czarina, Empress

Guest (FIREline): Snell & Wilmer Partner Becca J. Wahlquist


Episode 3: 

On our third episode of the Womble Bond Dickinson Ramble we discuss the FCC’s public notice to comment on TCPA and the act’s uncertain future.

We also bring you the other side of the TCPA table with our in-depth interview with Plaintiff’s TCPA lawyer Tav Gomez, head of Morgan & Morgan’s Consumer Protection Department.

Quick Info–Ramble Episode Three

Record Date: May 17, 2018

Host: The Czar

Cast: Baron, Grand Duchess, Czarina, Empress

Guest (FIREline): Tav Gomez, Head of Morgan & Morgan Consumer Protection Department


Episode 2:

Eric and team discuss recent TCPA developments including cases featuring the same plaintiff in suits against the American Heart Association and Marketron Broadcast Solutions. Also, the FCC seeks public comment on the scope of TCPA following ACA International.

Our special guest this week, Mark Brennan, a partner in the D.C. office of Hogan Lovells, and FCC TCPA advocate, talks about the new U.S. Chamber of Commerce petition.

Quick Info–Ramble Episode Two

Record Date: May 10, 2018

Host: The Czar

Cast: Baron, Grand Duchess, Czarina

Guest (FIREline): Hogan Lovells Partner Mark Brennan


Episode 1:

Join Eric Troutman and his highly entertaining team for the inaugural Womble Bond Dickinson Ramble. Troutman discusses the implications of hot TCPA topics such as the Barton Decision and the Stopping Bad Robocalls Act.

Featuring special guest Betty Temple, CEO, and Chair, Womble Bond Dickinson (US) LLP, Co-Chair, Womble Bond Dickinson (International) Limited. Betty talks to us about the big combination last year, diversity in hiring, along with the firm’s plan for growth and west coast expansion.

Quick Info–Ramble Episode One

Record Date: May 3, 2018

Host: The Czar

Cast: Baron, Grand Duchess, Czarina

Guest (In Studio): Womble Bond Dickinson CEO and Chair Betty Temple


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